Anyone looking to upgrade their lighting??

HCJohn · Post by **HCJohn** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:03 pm

I have a dual 400 watt Halide setup that really is just too much for the tank I have. Im having fits trying to keep the temps down and I dont need that much light to begin with to be honest. Im hoping that maybe someone has a dual 250 setup they might be willing to trade. Mine has the ballast with the dual switches on it, both moguls and 2 3month old 20k XM bulbs. They look absolutely fantastic on my tank, but the heat is just fighting me too hard.

Anyway, I figured I would ask here first before I start looking to sell or do something on ebay. Thanks again.

Phisher · Post by **Phisher** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:58 pm

Have you thought about T5s? With good reflectors you get more par per watt than most halide bulbs. Less watts = less heat. You can put retro kits together very inexpensively.

HCJohn · Post by **HCJohn** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:23 pm

Yea Ive thought about it, but I really love the Halide shimmer. What Ive also been thinking about is doing like 2 T5 lights, and keeping the halide. Then have the halides come on for like 3 hours and then off an hour, and then back on for 3 and so on. Kinda give it the shaded type thing and still give it light long enough during the day. Ive been able to keep the halides on for about 5 hours at a time right now before it reaches 82. I get worried it will just skyrocket past that so I shut them off for about an hour and have it go again.

I just figured I would ask about some lower wattage halides. Im only running the 1 400 watt right now, but on my 50 I think thats plenty...especially with no more then I have in the tank.

DrHank · Post by **DrHank** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:17 pm

I've got to agree with you on the shimmer of MH. I went back to them from T5s. If you do go T5s go with the best bulbs and individual reflectors you can buy. I used to have a 4 -54w fixtrue and happily sold it. Going back to MH was the best thing I could ever have done.

Yes, you can get PAR that's about equivelent to 20K MH but they aren't even going to come close to the MH you're running. Not even with 8 tubes. Your Idea of running the MH mid 3-4 hours and using T5s before and after is a good one. Again, best you can buy and they won't come close to your MH.

Amphiprion · Post by **Amphiprion** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:57 pm

What 20K halide are you comparing them to? They are brighter than almost all the 20Ks on the market (with exceptions in the 400w range). PAR can run higher in good t5 setups than in many 250w halide setups (especially if the tubes are overdriven). I do admit, though, you just don't get the shimmer with T5s.

DrHank · Post by **DrHank** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:19 pm

I'll have to see if I can dig you up a referance. I believe it was some research Sanjay was doing. It definately indicated that PAR was nearly equivelent to a good 250w 20K MH.

You're not going to beat my 2 250w 14K Hamiltons with 8 - 54w T5's at 24" deep no matter how much you overdrive them. You also won't be able to jam more than 8 tubes with relectors under a 24" deep hood. And there is absolutely no way you'll ever come close to 400w MH unless youre running one of those cheap Chineese bulbs.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying T5s aren't good. I know some folks who are getting fantastic results with them even on SPS. They still do have some limitations and those do show up toward the bottom of the tank. Most folks wouldn't put a SPS there anyway. They do run cooler and if you don't overdrive them, they will last substantially longer than MH. But then, you do really need to overdrive them to get the output.

Phisher · Post by **Phisher** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:58 pm

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... tal+halide

Without taking John's post too off topic, T5's actually seem to keep up their par values toward the bottom of a tank better than halides (you can see some comparison testing in that link). Halides produce much, much more par directly under the reflector but T5's distribute it throughout the tank better.

But basically you can keep anything you want under either type of lighting with the proper type/number of bulbs. But if heat is an issue for you, 2x250w vs 5x39w is a lot of difference.

HCJohn · Post by **HCJohn** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:12 pm

After looking at that post, I wonder if Im just blasting my tank with 400 watts. It seems just by the looks of that post that 250 watts is probably pretty high for my tank, and hitting with 400, Im probably blinding everything.

Amphiprion · Post by **Amphiprion** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:16 pm

DrHank wrote:I'll have to see if I can dig you up a referance. I believe it was some research Sanjay was doing. It definately indicated that PAR was nearly equivelent to a good 250w 20K MH.

You're not going to beat my 2 250w 14K Hamiltons with 8 - 54w T5's at 24" deep no matter how much you overdrive them. You also won't be able to jam more than 8 tubes with relectors under a 24" deep hood. And there is absolutely no way you'll ever come close to 400w MH unless youre running one of those cheap Chineese bulbs.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying T5s aren't good. I know some folks who are getting fantastic results with them even on SPS. They still do have some limitations and those do show up toward the bottom of the tank. Most folks wouldn't put a SPS there anyway. They do run cooler and if you don't overdrive them, they will last substantially longer than MH. But then, you do really need to overdrive them to get the output.

Well, I never said they were brighter than any 400w bulbs (please read my post carefully). The 400w 20000k is much brighter than a T5 setup. There are plenty of 250w bulbs that could outdo a high end T5 system, but the hamilton isn't one of them. That is one of the worst in terms of efficiency and PAR, actually. There is actually ample evidence that shows while T5s may not be as bright at the level of the lamp, they retain greater penetration to the sandbed. Tanks that I saw tested (Grim Reefer and others on RC) pretty much followed this. Once again, you can't compare T5s to 400w halides or PAR monsters like Iwasaki 15K or XM 10K bulbs. I have been keeping abreast of Sanjay's research and he has not revealed anything conclusive yet--he hasn't even started testing yet. He did a nice review on Solaris LEDs, however, which does correspond to what you were saying: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2 .

I await his results, though and I am curious how his findings will stack against those found by many other people. 90% of the T5 PAR readings I have found are pretty impressive and surpass a fair amount of 250w bulbs (again, there are plenty of exceptions).

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:26 pm

After looking at that post, I wonder if Im just blasting my tank with 400 watts. It seems just by the looks of that post that 250 watts is probably pretty high for my tank, and hitting with 400, Im probably blinding everything.
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I think you hit the nail on the head there....

HCJohn · Post by **HCJohn** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:46 pm

I went to Progressive Marine today...for the first time. (very nice stuff) I mentioned to them about me having the 400 watts over my tank and they said they didnt think it was too much. Could never be too much.

I still wonder, but after talking to them, maybe Its not as bad. Im going to try a few more things to try and get the temps easier to manage, but if tht doesnt work, Im just going to have to do something.

Amphiprion · Post by **Amphiprion** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:49 pm

It will work just fine if you are careful acclimating everything. I will say that you don't NEED it, but since you have it, it only makes sense to use it. If it is too bright, have you tried looking for a lower PAR bulb?

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:17 pm

What size tank is this fixture on? And what kind of corals do you have?

HCJohn · Post by **HCJohn** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:15 pm

Its on a 55gal Tub. 36x18x20.5

And as far as corals, I really only have some softies at the moment. I definately dont NEED that much light. And as far as a lower par bulb, its an xm 20k bulb. Im not sure what would be much lower par, but it sure is pretty.

Im mostly bummed about the heat, but Im still trying to adjust stuff to keep it ok. Im not getting over 82 right now, and most of the time able to keep it around 81, but it scares me at times and I have turned them off a few times as well.

sb1227 · Post by **sb1227** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:54 pm

I'd just run the one bulb like you're doing. If you're under 82 you're ok, but I do understand your concern. My tanks tend to be consistantly 81-83 this time of year with no problems. I don't know what kind or if you have powerheads, but you may be able to switch to a lower wattage one for a little more playing room. Just an idea..