Filtration opinions please

Kart Racer · Post by **Kart Racer** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:51 am

I bought my 55 gal. to be FOWLR but it has since turned to a reef tank. I kept the Emperor 400 and Seaclone skimmer. Also the tank has about 60 pounds of live sand and in the range of 70-80 lbs of live rock. Everything has seemed to be doing well but my question is on the Emperor. Would you leave the bio wheels in or out and why? Also would you use charcoal or something else in the filter. Fairly new to this and want to make sure I am doing right as it seems to be or can I do it better with what I have. Been set up like this for about 1 1/2 yrs.

Post by **snoopdog** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:54 am

The general idea is to remove any types of sponges, filter material made of fiber. Now charcoal is safe to use but make sure it is high quality that does not contain any phosphates. If you do not have a sump you may want to think about getting one they make reef tanks alot easier to mantain.

Kart Racer · Post by **Kart Racer** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:35 am

Thanks Snoop. I may can trade my daughter my 26 bowfront that is currently empty for a 20 gallon. Is that enough and what would I need to get it operational other than an overflow box and return pump? And how big of a return pump?

Post by **snoopdog** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:40 am

Is the 55 gallon drilled with an overflow ? If not you will need an overflow box. Hmmm, 20 gallon may to cutting it close for a sump on a 55 gallon ? What do you guys think ?

A mag 12 or equivelant should be fine.

Kart Racer · Post by **Kart Racer** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:48 am

No the tank is not drilled. When I bought it, this was not supposed to turn out like it has. Just a few fish and maybe some shrimp and crabs and let that be all but boy I sure missed that by a mile. Now I am looking for something in the 125 to 180 range for an aggressive tank. After that is all set up maybe I will be satisfied(if thats possible with saltwater aquariums).

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:53 pm

You might as well go buy a drilled 75 gallon or larger. I had a 55 for a while and the difference in the front to depth makes a world of difference.

Kart Racer · Post by **Kart Racer** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:11 pm

But if I went to a 75 or larger wouldnt I almost have to start over from scratch? Not that I wouldnt lolve a larger reef just I dont know if my wife would let me stay to enjoy it.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:19 pm

Good point. I did run a 55 gallon reef for more than 2 years with a CPR Bakpak skimmer. I had about 70 lbs of liverock and a deep sand bed. The Emperor could be used to run carbon and is good for circulation and to break the surface scum up. I am not familiar with the Seaclone but the Bakpak had a chamber where you could put a heater. I would ditch the biowheel and any other type of filter media except carbon or PO4 removers.

JIM · Post by **JIM** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:26 am

Im far from a expect here but my 75 gallon runs on two emp 400
and three power heads lots of live rock and a red sea pro skimmer
please carry your sea clone to the trash it is a (pos).With a light bio
load should be fine.(low bio load!!!!)

harbingerofthefish · Post by **harbingerofthefish** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:13 pm

Okay just to tag along and ask a question...

when people tell you to remove the sponges, bio wheels, etc..the typically give the reason of it being a trap for nitrates. If it traps nitrates it's trapping them form your tank. So the nitrates are already present in there. By filling a sponge or other media with the bacteria that eats nitrates, how is this bad? Most all tanks detect some nitrates right? And if your not using a refugium, your going to have some anyway right? Seeing as your not growing nitrate eating algae in a refugium, why is it really bad to leave filter media in? Since most large tank people don't do frequent water changes, which would help out in lowering nitrates, wouldn't having some sort of "catch all" for the nitrates be more benificial than detrimental? That is the whole point of the media anyway.

Kart Racer-

I'm not sure how you have your tank set up, but would it be feasible to build an over the tank refugium? Personally I'm afraid of siphons. Something along the lines of paritioning off a 20 gallon (20 long would look nicer imo

) And having a PH pump into it with a free flow out to the main tank.

KrazyPlace · Post by **KrazyPlace** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:24 pm

Nitrates are removed by 3 ways that I'm aware of:

1. Anaerobic bacteria in deep sand beds, plenums, and to some degree inside of live rock. Not in filter media!

2. Water changes (20% water change will reduce the Nitrates from 10ppm to 8ppm, do it again and it goes to 6.4ppm, then 5.1, 4.1, 3.3, 2.6, etc.)

3. Algae uptake in refugiums or other macro/micro algae sources.

The filters are a substitute for live rock, but not a good one. The filters do not operate in oxygen deficient water, so it will not be anaerobic. There will be no nitrate removal. The filters will transform ammonia to nitrites and then nitrites to nitrates. I do not believe there is any harm in having the filters, but typically you don't need them in the presence of live rock.

Don't confuse the different types of bacteria needed in a fish tank. Nitrates are removed by the anaerobic bacteria that can not live in the presence of oxygen.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:34 pm

A lot of times filters like bio balls and bio wheels trap detritus where it can't be processed or removed easily. This is a "nitrate factory" and their use is not really advised. If you have enough live rock and live sand you have enough biological filtration.

KrazyPlace · Post by **KrazyPlace** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:41 pm

Scott wrote:A lot of times filters like bio balls and bio wheels trap detritus where it can't be processed or removed easily. This is a "nitrate factory" and their use is not really advised. If you have enough live rock and live sand you have enough biological filtration.

That's a good point Scott.